» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Pages: (2) < [1] 2 >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Topic: minimalist vs. everything but the kitchen sink, how much is enough?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
randrums Offline
Cuda




Group: Members
Posts: 70
Joined: July 2004
Posted: April 23 2007,16:21

I'm starting this thread as a response to posts from page 6 of another thread titled "RTM Disco! C'e Manufique!, the long awaited Pro Killer?  Oh no!". The discussion there drifted into  how much gear and how many rods yakfishers feel is necessary.
Comments in that thread from rodbldr, the Cap'n, and stant01 were all in favor of a minimalist setup, and certainly that is a perfectly good way to fish, and a way that I fish some days as well. But many times, my schedule and paddling chops allow for an excursion of six or more hours, covering a lot of different types of water and fishing. If I'm going to the trouble of loading up my stuff and paddling out there, I intend to be ready. Sharks and 'cuda are an ever present reality here, resulting in cutoffs and rerigging. I don't mind rerigging, but I want to be FISHING while I'm rerigging. Having another rod with appropriate terminal tackle within reach keeps me fishing even while I'm doing this. But maybe most importantly, the varied types of fish, their changing appetites, and the varied types of water in our unique Keys enviroment presents a real challenge when it comes to rigging just 1 or 2 rods. For example, in just one long trip, I routinely do ALL of the following:

1)On the way to/from my sweet spots, I'll troll a spoon with wire leader for 'cuda. Sometimes jacks and snapper will hit this, too. This rod also gives me something to throw if I'm in the process of tying on a new leader or bait and something presents itself close to the boat. I rarely change this rig - wire leaders are a pain. Whenever I'm on the move - I'm trolling a spoon, not rerigging so I can then troll a spoon, only to rerig again when I get to my snapper hole.
2) Cast to rolling tarpon of 100lbs or more. Sorry boys, your 10# power pro trout rigs w/20# leader on a light rod ain't gonna stop this fish. More likely he'll bust the leader, or burn up your drag and spool you on his way to Cuba - not good for you or the fish.
3) Cast a sibiki rig to catch pinfish for bait.  
4) Drop live or frozen bait near patch reefs to pick off a grouper. Again, those trout rigs will not even move these fish off the reef before he has you "rocked up", and the game is pretty much over and he wins.
5) Cast to permit on the flats. This rig stays ready with a soft artificial crab and 40# leader. If there's time (rarely) I'll put a live shrimp or crab on the hook before casting, but those of you who've fished for permit know when it happens, it happens fast. You have seconds to cast accurately before the fish spooks and it's over.
6) Cast to bonefish on the flats. Your trout rig is fine here, and your DOA shrimp might fool him. Or not. Live shrimp on a circle hook works way better if you care to mess with them. As to the time you'll have to cast, see #5. Rigging before throwing causes lots of missed, hard to come by opportunities.
7) If sharks show up, and I'm in the mood, I'll try to snag a blacktip or spinner. A heavier rig w/wire leader is a must here, and I don't want to spend fishing time doing haywire twists on my kayak. If you go lighter, see #2 above. The fish is gone and your reel is empty. No good.

And when you think about it, how much does a rod and reel weigh? Or 5 rods and reels? Negligible. When I started yakfishing, I only had two rigs, and did a lot of rerigging out there. I lost track of how many tarpon I saw and didn't have an appropriate setup to cast to him. Or how many times a shark or 'cuda mangled my light (snapper) leaders and left me sitting in the middle of a hot bite with nothing to cast for 10 minutes while I dug out my leader and tied up 2 new rigs. No more. Before I launch, I do have a plan for the day, and target species in mind. But when I get out there, I'm ready for most anything the inshore fishery has to offer that day. And exactly what that is might not present itself 'til I'm out there in the middle of it. Dropping/retrieving anchor (so as to not drift away from the bite), and retying terminal tackle isn't what I want to be doing when things get cookin'. Just because my "target species" is tarpon or grouper, do you think I want to pass up tailing bonefish because that wasn't in my "plan" and I'm not geared up for them? No way.

As to other gear, I've posted in the new safety section my "every time out" list. Much of it has nothing to do with fishing, but just general kayaking. Flying solo as I do often, through all kinds of water and sometimes miles from help, safety gear is non-negotiable for me. If going offshore, extra water, food, raingear, spare paddle, VHF, and more aren't luxuries, they're necessities. And I need to be able to get to them even if through a front hatch. Enter the venerable Scupper Pro. Anything the Keys can dish out, up to about 20kts, the Scupper can do it and do it well. A T160 would also handle this nicely. P15, too. The P13 is great, but kinda slow to me. In spite of all this, I do see a Disco in my future - I paddle a 17' SIK when I'm just paddling and have come to love the speed and seaworthiness of these craft - I think the Disco sounds awesome, but probably not for my "kitchen sink" expedtions. :)

OK, there's my "Scupper Pro Frank" length post. :) What do you other guys out there use when you yak fish? Comments on the type of fishing you're doing would help, methinks. And again, thanks to all who have taken the time to post input from their unique perspective! I continue to get tons of good advice and ideas from the posters here. It's all good. :)
Back to top
Profile PM 
FlatulentTuna Offline
Tarpon




Group: Members
Posts: 138
Joined: April 2007
Posted: April 23 2007,17:02

I have very little experience out there....but i know that law guy realllly reallly well. His name is Murphy.  Bring two of something and an opper"tuna"ty will wave at ya when yer holdin the wrong set up.
Back to top
Profile PM 
amhirsc0 Offline
Cuda




Group: Members
Posts: 54
Joined: June 2005
Posted: April 23 2007,19:53

The discourse by Randrums on what he likes to take along on his kayak some of the time, versus what Jimbo espouses, and me, a fly fisherman illustrates that the style of fishing also makes the choice of an 'ideal' kayak different.  

Kayaks that can hold everthing that Randrums likes to take along, as well as a live-bait well and a battery needs to be a high volume kayak and is likely to be 15-16 feet long with a beam of about 30 inches.  Jimbo loves the Scupper Pro or its copy because it is faster and can hold all the tackle he typically takes on a day.  Even if I take a spinner along for when it gets too windy for throwing a fly, all my tackle fits in my fishing vest  including jigs and 'Gulp" ---- my primary criterion is weight of the kayak.

I currently own a P-13, which I used to load up with a cooler, bait bucket, three rods, tackle box, etc.  It likely will be sold and replaced by a kayak that is about 20 pounds lighter.  

Thus, for each of us the 'ideal' kayak is different and the 'best', and for others who have place importance on different criterion, e.g. regularly go through the surf, stand up to cast, there's another 'best' kayak.

It seems to me that a kayak be evaluated on the bases of how the kayak will be used, the size of the kayaker, how much equipment will be carried, where the kayak will be used, etc., as well as personal preferences.  

There is simply NO ONE BEST KAYAK!


--------------
KayakAl
Back to top
Profile PM 
Capn Jimbo Offline
The Godfisher




Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 1712
Joined: Jan. 2004
Posted: April 23 2007,22:52

But the problem is most kayakers are forced to compromise choose just one kayak (otherwise you end up with ten, lol)...

Actually I did consider the Scupper Pro (now the Tempo) as the Best All-Around Kayak for South Floridian waters.  To a large degree I still do, although the Disco and the Tempo will have to duke it out for that honor.

The Tempo/Pro is what I call the perfect compromise.  It is not the fastest plastic out there, but it is fast.  There are kayaks that hold more, but it holds a lot.  A very few kayaks can turn better (eg the Spike) but it turns very well.  You get the idea.  Price, quality, etc.  Very, very good.  The Tempo/Pro does everything quite well, and accordingly is very hard to beat.

Amhirsc you may be surprised to learn that Randrums paddles a Scupper Pro which meets his many goals.  Accordingly I have to disagree that a 30 inch beam is necessary or advisable, with one exception - those very few kayakers who wish to stand and pole, and the big buttsters.

It was not the kayak that drove me to minimalism; it's just that my goals are different.  Randrums makes an excellent case for his equipment selection.  I will say that when I used to do the flats a lot I had one rod rigged for bones, and another for tarpon and cuda as I wanted to be able to take advantage of fleeting opportunities.

I do feel that since almost any kayak can be rigged to suit, it makes sense to adapt the best performing all-around kayak you can handle  as this will greatly enhance and extend the on water experience.

The Tempo/Pro and the Disco really do provide these capabilities, with the Tempo/Pro offering a bit more capacity for bigger paddlers with more gear, and the Disco for those who weigh under 220, and especially under 200 and seek no compromise.

Nice discussion all...



:capn:


Edited by Capn Jimbo on April 23 2007,23:03

--------------
Tight lines,
Capn Jimbo

Link to FLYC Main Site
Link to Member Map
New Posts! (also top of page)
Back to top
Profile PM 
PALADIN Offline
Marlin




Group: Members
Posts: 616
Joined: Feb. 2004
Posted: April 24 2007,06:14

Well put Capn

And as a former Swing owner (30.5 beam) and now a Tempo owner (26 beam) I really don't see any difference in stability.

I carry about the same set up... two rods for the purpose stated above. The rods sit in the flush mounts that have been modified with pvc extenders (see thread).
I have installed two major improvements to the Tempo.
A 6" screw in hatch in the cockpit and a ram tube just ahead of it.

I can't tell you how much the addition of the ram tube has helped me.
Not only is trolling in front of me better, but changing tackle or just a place to put your rod when landing your fish!!

In addition to that the screw in hatch holds all the stuff you normally would stow ( keys, wallet,etc.)

I really love the Tempo, but don't get me wrong I have seen Fuzzy's Hobie and it too is a fishin machine.

Different strokes...

I also see different trends in differnt area's... for example the guys on the west coast (cali) not only take the kitchen sink, but the bathroom as well  :D  .

Lately in this area the trend is light tackle. But as randrums states that light stuff is only for certain species.

For me I came to kayaking because I loved to fish. When I think of kayaking I think fishing. Therefore I tend to be in randrums camp when it comes to equipment.

For others it might be different, but besides my poles all my equipment including my 3 piece paddle fit in a very large dry bag ready to go at a moments notice.

As for the safety stuff that really should not be a thought any more. I will not comment on it because we have another thread for your reveiw. But it should be a part of your routine every time you go out.

And as Jim said I think this is a great discussion!!

:cool:


--------------
Tight Lines and Tail Winds
               Mike
Back to top
Profile PM 
phoneman Offline
Tarpon




Group: Members
Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006
Posted: April 24 2007,11:11

:cool: Well those of you who know me, know I love a BIG YAK (I own a Drifter, 32.5" wide) and I like it because it holds all my gear. I take at least 3 rods offshore and always two for inshore. For offshore I have lots more gear to keep safe and to fish with. Speed is not as important to me as having the right gear to fish with.

Plus I need room to put my new GPS and I'm getting a fish finder this summer.

BTW: I'm one of those 200+ guys, at 5'11" I need the room to move around :p

Good post yakkers.


--------------
"The Green Machine Fishing Team"

"HOOK-EM"


www.certifiedcom.com
Your Telecom Source for all VoIP & More
plykins@certifiedcommunications.com
Back to top
Profile PM AOL 
RDS Offline
Marlin




Group: Members
Posts: 211
Joined: April 2004
Posted: April 24 2007,16:07

This is really a different strokes for different folks discussion. I usually take 3 rods out, sometimes 2. I find my Scupper Pro holds what I need for fishing, and I could easily add slots for another 3-4 rods on my milk crate if I wanted. The whole tackle box fits in there also, but it's a pain to get to so I usually just bring my minimalist tray that velcros in behind my Scotty mount. I'll also do the Jimbo approach sometimes and just go out for a paddle with one rod along in case I see some fishing action.

On the bulky side, my tandem has 6  rodholders, space for a cooler, fishbag, the whole tackle box and snorkeling gear for 2 in the easily accessible center hatch. I've actually done combo fishing/snorkeling trips like that which would be difficult on the Scupper. With a 34-ish inch beam it's nice and stable for climbing on and off also.

RDS
Back to top
Profile PM 
critterdog Offline
Marlin




Group: Members
Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2004
Posted: April 26 2007,14:31

To cover every kind of fishing I like to do ,it would take a few yaks.Fishing small Bass lakes I like a 9ft wide yak that I can throw in the back of my truck and move from pond to pond.

 Long paddles I want a 15 Prowler so I can pack everything I might need for the trip. I like to take my cast net ,plus rods, two life vests ,first aid kit,crate , w/six rod holders one of witch  has a 3 ft measuring stick. Anchor system. I would actually like to make a trailer live bait raft , that has very little draft or pull, and is self areating as you paddle. I have a few ideas.

 My Drifter has never let me down on a normal day fishing , but I would like to install a rudder for the wind , which has not been much of a problem untill the wind goes over 20 mile an hour on the flats.

For large fish , I have had great times on my OK Malibu Two. I could stear it with my weight as the large tarpon pulled me around and not have to use my paddle
Back to top
Profile PM 
krash Offline
Marlin




Group: Members
Posts: 275
Joined: Jan. 2005
Posted: April 27 2007,05:17

RDS is correct, opinions are like xxx but everyones got one including yours truly...

I take the minimalist approach, fist off I have a small yak. Depending on where I go and the planned target is, pretty much if it down fit in my crate it don't go. For inshore 1 to 3 rods usually 2, 1 floating plastic tackle box which includes several assorted soft plastics in 2 or 3 colors and style, 15/25# spool of fluro, various hooks, and 2 or 3 topwater and shallow hard lures, and maybe spoon or two, a pair of hemos and a knife. Always a gallon jug of water and maybe a snack.
Required safety equip and paddle. Currently I do not have an anchor or stakeout pole.

One rod will be rigged with weightless hook for the soft plastics, and 1 will be rigged with a top-water bait either a spook or chug bug.


--------------
SW, Live to Fish, Have Tackle will travel ... >,)))~> ~~~~
Back to top
Profile PM 
amhirsc0 Offline
Cuda




Group: Members
Posts: 54
Joined: June 2005
Posted: April 30 2007,14:53

As a minimalist who now takes no more than 2 rods, one fly and one spinner in case it get too windy for throwing a fly, my tackle fits into my fishing vest (flies and jigs with "Gulp" for the spinner), my P-13 has far more room than I need to fish.  (I used to take three rods, live bait in a minnow bucket, and a cooler)  I do fish the flats and tidal areas of northern Florida.

I do use a lip-gripper tethered to the boat, a stake-out pole, and an anchor running through a anchor trolley which extends from the port center to stern, but these items could be attached to any of the boats discussed.

I still have the cooler, which just fits into the aft storage area but it acted to much like a sail steering me to windward on any crosswind.  I have found a great fish storage bag, the 'Kayak Catch Cooler' from seattlesportsco.com.  The bag is a double with an inner bag that holds fish, which can be easily removed to clean.  It would easily fit into the Disco, or on top the bow of a SIK, if that is the preferable kayak or the one that is available.


--------------
KayakAl
Back to top
Profile PM 
10 replies since April 23 2007,16:21 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Pages: (2) < [1] 2 >

Quick Reply: minimalist vs. everything but the kitchen sink
iB Code Buttons
You are Posting as:
Guest
Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code